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October 11, 2007

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Robert Clifton

another two cents:
The herd instinct is certainly appropriatly applied.
Garnering new information will often turn the tide -or herd- but that appears to always be an excruciatingly slow process. (notice I did not say correct information.)

This line "To make that decision (abolish the guardianship) is to set yourself up in opposition to God's will and to arrogantly assume that you know better." is itself in opposition to God's will if we believe Baha'u'llah.
Not to mention the arogance of such a statement.
Obviously good and rational people can disagree on a conclusion drawn from the facts.
Baha'u'llah tells us that to turn with the herd based on someone elses conclusion leads us astray. The divines (individuals and institutions) do that to us in every dispensation. We must independently, aside from the crowd, and based on our own immersion in the writings of Baha'u'llah and other messengers turn our own direction.
Unfortunately this statement might be true, "...there is no hope at all that humanity can be unified." but not for the stated reason.
We as a herd have not yet consulted on the meaning of unity. Until we all (6 billion people - all) individually determine what Baha'u'llah meant by
unity we will run willy nilly with one or another faction of the herd.
You can accept what I think unity means, or what one of the three guardians think it means, or what the UHJ thinks it means but until we ALL reach consensus, we won't unify.
Robert Clifton

Jeffrey

Dear Daniel,

Your comments make sense from the perspective of someone who has not fully studied the teachings of Baha'u'llah. What is missing from your analysis is that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this Day and that the Institutions of the Faith are divine in origin. If you properly understand that the Guardianship is an office that is divine in origin, then you will see that nobody can make the decision to abolish it. To make that decision is to set yourself up in opposition to God's will and to arrogantly assume that you know better. Baha'u'llah, while recognizing the value of democratic systems also upheld the idea of royalty and His System combines the best of both. To substitute a man-made system for a Divine System of God's government on earth as it is in heaven, is to make a huge mistake. The fact of the matter is that the Guardian serves the essential function of the authorized interpreter of the Holy Writ, and without obedience to a living Guardian, there is no hope at all that humanity can be unified.

Jeffrey

daniel

Hi there,

I m not bahai. Still reading up on it. From what I see so far, I think there's a pretty good transition going on starting from the Bab then on to Baha'ullah to Abdul Baha to the Guardian and finally to the current administration.

The first annouces the other, then Baha'ullah receives the message, Abdul Baha makes those words more understandable to all. Handing the cause to the Guardian is good cause it removes the idea of a dynastic rule. Having the power then be transferred to the Universal House of Justice is the most reasonable step in the continual transfer of power to the people.
Its almost like the breaking up of the monarchy into a democratic system.

Christianity very swiftly became a political and bureaucratic body once its was officially adopted by Constantine. Islam had a very deep schism at death of Mohamed.

I think what the Bahais is developing is a good start towards a peaceful global government.

Even if there was a 'cascading' effect in the decision to abolish guardianship, wouldnt the voting system from local to national assemblies help promote collective intelligence and wisdom?

Thanks for reading.

Daniel

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